Conversations About Switching (Part 2)

The closest I came before that was reading some of my Dad's Gor books and finding trashy magazines my younger brother had hidden. These were geared to men's fantasies of course. 


I'm still learning what my inner most desires are. Bondage certainly, Im not sure about spankings or a lot of the other "traditional" pain/ pleasure ideas. I am willing to experience most of these things. Except something like being whipped, that would be very painful. 


I read a lot of historical romance novels growing up, sometimes I still do *grin*. Many of my ideas of being submissive come from what I have read there. Things like being selected and then captured by some desert sheik. Carried aboard a pirate/ Viking ship and having to accept "him" as my master. The same situation in different scenes really. Part of these scenes was always testing how far you could go before you were pulled back by the sheik, Viking, etc. That was something I always enjoyed too. I do it now with my IRC Dom. It is not disrespect to him when I tease him. I like being told I have gone too far and being pulled back. 

> itself does nothing to foster a relationship. When however it is a natural part
> of a loving relationship it can be a very powerful part of that relationship.
> Usually it signifies one has sufficient trust in ones partner to allow oneself
> to surrender, (submission), to whatever that person may wish to do. In some
> ladies with a prudish outlook, or like the Victorians of past, it was a way for
> them overcoming their prudishness or natural reserve that was a strict part of
> their upbringing.  In their mind s eye, it was a way of secretly enjoying
> uninhibited sex which they really immensely enjoyed, but at the same time
> allowed them to maintain the pretence that there was nothing they could do to
> prevent their husband s lustful advances.


Master Michael, This idea could be true for me. I have always been a "good girl". Nothing I have done would have turned one hair on my Grandmother's head grey (Except for my not choosing to be Christian). I like being a good girl, I can respect myself. But I dont want to be a good girl 24 hrs a day and 7 days a week. For one thing Im far too curious. Maybe bondage and giving up control is a way for me to allow myself to be something I want and yet am not completely comfortable with. I hadnt thought about it this way before. Your mention of the Victorian women struck a chord in me though. 


I was glad the Master pleased himself as well as the sub. It seems to me that both Master and sub should be pleasured. Other wise the scene does not seem balanced. Almost as if the Master is a bystander, this makes him seem a little aloof or dettached from the action. 


I like the idea of wearing the collar and of having a collar worn for me. This is why I am a switch and not a sub or a Domme alone. 


I think that is what I like about bondage. It does let you give away your freedom of choice. I had been wondering how I could like bondage and subbing when I love being independant and doing things my own way. I really dont like being told what to do at all! LOL


at do you think of Doms that switch?  I have heard some subbies say they dont care for Doms with whip marks on their asses. Im not sure how I feel. It has been thrown at me and I feel kind of weird about it.  What is your opinion? He told me once that is was for balance. But last night was the third time I have balanced him and I am not sure I like it. I can be the Domme, its not easy, but I can do it. I dont think I can look at him the same way though. I liked it better when he had the control now that I have had it I guess I dont see him as being two steps ahead of me any more. Its confusing and disappointing. Yet he is still the same Dom that made me feel a lot of things I havent felt before. When I began subbing for him I could feel his power even through IRC. I liked the way it felt. 

-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------
> If/when the Dom/Master switches with His sub, is He truely submitting to her?
> Is she really Dominating Him? Or are they just Topping/bottoming?  .. And, does
> it make a difference?
> 
> If He get some pleasure from being whipped/flogged occasionally, why would His
> sub/slave think this type of service any different from caressing Him, using
> her lips and hands for His pleasure?


> I like you as a sub!  Don't go against nature by attempting to be a femdomme.
>  It's just not you, laura!

I don't know what I am any more. I'm falling for him and it is scaring the heck out of me. We have talked about Domming and subbing and we seem to click in that way. He is very strong and independent. He just likes someone to bring him down a peg or two after work. I would like someone to look after and boss around a little and someone who will give me some discipline and strength the rest of the time. We like so many of the same things. Our lifestyles fit together like pieces of a puzzle. 


Have you ever loved any of your subs or Dommes or vanillas? I only felt this way once before and it was a disaster at the end. Have you ever been at that point where you have to decide whether or not to let go and put everything you are on the line? I'm trying to hold back. But I keep wanting to tell him so many things. He may be coming out this way sometime this Summer. 




I love the feeling of having my Dom take control. But it also scares me. There is a part of me he has not touched, I dont think any one has. Its my centre, its where all my deepest worries, self doubts, things I would prefer to keep hidden are. Its also where my deepest loves and passions are. Its more than that, its me. Its all that makes me the person I am, my essence. To give him pieces of my centre is very hard, each time he gets closer to having total power over me. Total power to hurt me, if he chose to do that.


I also have wondered how much I can give him before there is nothting left that is just me. Right now I am a separate entity. I am my own person. To give him control gives some part of me and my freedom to be myself I suppose, away. I also wondered about what I was becoming. If I would still respect myself once I had gone as far as my curiousity and passions want to take me. I nearly stopped finding out more about D/s at that point. But then I realized that I still have that much control over who I am and what I think about myself. I do have some things I will not do, though the list seems to be shrinking. 


Right now I am free again. And, yes, it does feel that way. I miss my IRC Dom but we reached a point where things couldnt go forward any more. I am taking time to think and regroup, reassess everything I have thought and learned. Of course, my life being the collection of oddities that it is, this is also the time I have met a male sub on line who really seems to have the knack for shaking me out of my self possession. Just to make it tougher and more interesting, when he gets back from Japan in 8 days (and counting) we are going to switch! At least I'm not bored! Not that I ever was. 


I don't think I could sub at all if I was so restricted I couldnt be a "brat" once in awhile. Well, maybe more than once in awhile..... Besides its  *his* job to have/ keep the control. Life is  *so*  full of challenges! I enjoy making him think on his feet. Of course I do stop once I realize he isn't still laughing. You don't want to go  *too*  far with a good thing. 


I do have all my own opinions and ideas, which I expect to be taken into account. A Dom who can't let me breathe will not interest me for long.  I also don't think my submission would mean anything if I was not my own person. Where is the fun in Domming if its all too easy.


Once in a while however, I feel a need to be able to give up all these pressures and responsibilities for a few hours and to let someone else take all the decisons. As a dominant yourself, you will know that it is hard work being in charge all the time - it is a big responsibility. That is kind of how I feel and perhaps helps to explain the need to be regressed to being "just a naughty little boy" every now and then.


There is also the need for some kind of emotional release - a desire just to let go and follow ones urges or to let out all the tensions and pressures of everyday life. As men, for example, we a taught to be emotionally stable, not to show weakness and to keep control of ourselves at all times. We are never expected to cry or exhibit gentler "feminine" traits. That is why I imagine, for example, that there would be a certain kind of catharsis from being put over a womans knee and soundly spanked until one was able to sob and plead. I don't actually have any personal experience to go on, and I am quite certain that the spanking itself would be painful and humiliating, but it would certainly be an emotional experience outside of the norm - something which all of us need from time to time.

> .. oh well. I think I'm stuck with the opinion that just too
> > many subs lack creativity - to submit is a special act, but not one that
> takes
> > great imagination. It is the dom who is the artist. Guess that's why one of
> us
> > is called "artful."
> > 
> > A complete submissive is indeed a joy to play with and even to spend a lot of
> > time with, but how can they complement a man in the long run? How can they
> > inspire and challenge? 
> -------- REPLY, End of original message --------
> 
> 
> Dom and sub should compliment, inspire and challenge each other. 
> 
> If the Dom is the artist he has only himself to blame for not exploring the
> full potential of his canvas, his sub. For myself I am not someone who waits
> patiently. I begin my own explorations.  I have met "Doms" who try to restrict
> me. They want to pound their rules, their needs and their demands into me
> before they even know who I am.  Being a sub should feel free. Feeling free a
> sub can then let her imagination go along with her inhibitions. 
> 

Btw, I have decided I am a Switch as far as D/s goes. I might even be leaning to the Domina side. I get a real charge out of Domming my little sub so far away in Hong Kong. He wants to try Domming. I gave him a chance the other night and he was a litte too controlling for me. But its hard to start Domming without some use of force I suppose. Besides I did spring it on him. I was feeling very bratty, hardly Domme like and I told him to do it! LOL Well, more like I dared him to do it. Poor guy never knew what hit him. I didn't make it at all easy on him for his first time. But he said later that he had fun but he would rather stay as my sub and keep learning from me. 


Alice, When I started I thought I could never find the power in myself to not only do this but enjoy doing it. Now I get a real charge out of it all. Giver yourself some time to find what it is you want. My first submissive was a weird time for me. I also had to ask him what to do and how to do it. I never could feel like I was Domming him. But I broke up with him. I was lucky in that we were only an IRC (Internet) couple. I also see now that I was babying him. He was not a strong male and I not only felt intimidated by the whole Domme thing but I also did not  want to "hurt" him. I felt I was bad everytime I had him do anything. I dont know if you ever feel this way but I thought I would share what I felt.


My current submissive is a strong man who likes to be treated like a mischivious boy. This includes some humiliation. I am lucky that we share the same tastes and limits. I also use a flyswatter on him. I think it is not the spanking but what the swatter means that makes it effective. A real man would  not think being swatted was a problem but I am not treating him like a real man when I use the swatter on him. For me its the mental aspects that matter more than the actualy physical spanking itself. The only other thing I have used is my hand. Though I would like to step up to a paddle, just for the thickness of its look and the sound it will make on his behind.  Start easy Alice, find what gives you that feeling of power over him. You dont need to use all of his ideas and you dont need to feel intimidated by the power you are reaching for either. 


This is not a well thought out or organized letter. I am working on only a few hours of sleep. I suggest you find other Dominas with more experience than I have. but I will be glad to email with you and give you what ever knowledge I have managaed to pick up here and there. Oh! One great idea I did have that I can pass on... if you want to learn about a new aspect of D/s make him do the leg work. Give him the idea (such as CBT) and have him complete a detailed assignment on it with his opinions included. Then you can read it over when you are ready and choose for your self what interests you and what you don't feel ready to try. This has worked well for me. We are just beginnning in CBT and I have not only a whole list with descriptions but his fears, concerns and fantasies are all right there too. 


Take care Alice, I think I am too tired to read this over. 


All Domination has to have the mental aspect. Why else does the submissive bother to obey the Dom at all. When I use the term mental and sensual I am attempting to screen out those sub males who want to be abused or feminized or any of the other areas of D/s I have not found an interest in. Though I do like the idea of a lot of touching and I have to feel close to a sub in order to want to do more than just give him orders and all the "standard" Domme things. Does this make sense? My style of Domming leaves me free to pamper my sub if I choose to do so. This is for me as much of a turn on as having him pamper me. This does not mean I do not give my subs a little torment if I choose to do so. I very much enjoy the idea of tying up a submissive and leaving him to wonder what I have in mind for him. Perhaps I would tease him until he begged to be given release. Perhaps I would be in the mood to give him harsher treatment such as a swat or twist of sensitive body parts. Perhaps he would be blindfolded and I would crack a whip leaving him to wonder if I will let it touch him or not. I do not think I would whip a sub unless he was very "into" his submission and longed to feel that snap of pain. But the sound of a whip is something I have long liked and associated with my Domme mode.


> 
> It turns out that a switch would be an ideal partner. I adore women (one at a
> time, of course) and have enormous respect for their talents and abilities. It
> would be (COULD be) fun to have the tables turned occasionally! If you write
> back I would like to hear more about this.

I am a recent convert to switching. I have been a Domme and a submissive but neither was enough all the time. I find I prefer to Domme now that I understand what I want in a man who submits. I believe any man can submit but it takes a strong man's submission to make me feel the real charge and thrill of Domming him. I tend to look for men who also switch now. Too many who are only submissives are wimpy and want to be "forced" to act and dress like a woman. I am surprised more Domina's don't find this a touch insulting as I have begun to. I am proud to be a woman and to act like a woman. I have no desire to see a man attempt to be womanly, I find it a turn off for me. When I domme a sub male I like to create the feeling in him that he is under my full control. To have a strong man "helpless" and left to my mercy is what I most enjoy about Domming men. 


When I submit, on the other hand, I find I lose interest in any man who can not make me feel submissive without trying to totally control me. To be too controlled makes me feel too tightly bound and I just can not handle feeling that way for very long. If I can not escape, which is easy on IRC, I get extremely frustrated and angry. My sister likes to be very controlling and I have sometimes lost it when she just would not quit and leave me alone. Thinking about it makes me feel some of that anger again. I still have a mark on my wall where I hit it with a book once when she was really making me crazy. She had decided to make sure I could not have access to my internet account. This caused me to loose out on having an article published as the deadline was that night. Rather than doing bodily harm to her I went down to my basement "office" and smashed inanimate objects. LOL I am probably telling you more about myself than you need to know. But I have always enjoyed the written and spoken word and with the Net I have both in a way.


> 
> How nice to see you posting on the new newsgroup.  I particulary liked your
> story.  I had no idea you had Governess fantasies.  Would you ever think of
> taking them into real life?  I also detected a bit of a feminization theme.  

The Governess idea came from a submissive I met through his post to the newsgroup. I started getting into it because it is a way of play with less force involved. I also find I enjoy the humiliation of a male submissive. That came as a surprise to me. I would do most things I try on the Net in real life, why not really? If you can trust your partner why not give yourself the freedom to try whatever you like. The only thing that would need more trust than usual on my part would be my own submission. That amount of trust would be hard for me to give someone. I think some of the trust involved in submitting comes from inside myself, I have to trust myself and my ideas and feelings as well as the Dom I give my submission to. Maybe that is why I am good at writing from the submissives perspective. I have not written from the Domme's perspective and I was wondering how I would go about that. So that is going to be my next writing project. I have a couple of other Governess style stories I think I will rework a little and also post to the Newsgroup. I have had a few responses and all favourable so far. Its great to have someone else tell me the stories are good, even well written from Mule who is a frequent story poster to the Group. That was a nice confidence boost for me. :)


The feminization I used was just a tease to the submissive I wrote the stories for. It is his sort of heavy limit. It is also a limit for me. I have no desire to pretend to force a man to be a female. I am proud to be a female and to "force" someone to be something I take pride in is somehow insulting to me. I understand it is a kink for a lot of men but its not my kink. Tough to make him wear frilly undies is something I can do as they are very girlish and would be humiliating whether the submissive was male or female.
>


I have also tried things I had no interest in to please a submissive. In the end I, like you, find I really enjoy the submission the acting out of their fantasies brings. That does not mean I would try every fantasy but I am more open minded about fantasies now.


I am a switch and I did find that using the safeword was hard. Not because I didnt have some sense that things had gone too far but because I wanted to know what would happen next in some sense. Have any subs felt this way?  I hope I would not be too deep into subspace or too curious to see what happens next to protect myself if I ever give my submission offline. I am glad I learned on line first. I spared myself a lot of pain from unrealistic and dishonest Doms. There is no better way to learn than from experience, at least for me.


I agree with your point about it not being fair to the Dom to add that responsibility. It is a huge responsibility to Domme. I look for all the information I can find about a new idea before I write about it or suggest it to my submissives. I also ask other experienced submissives if they have done whatever it is and get their feedback. I would not like to Domme a submissive who believes any feedback he gives me is topping from the bottom. Communication is vital. I need to know that we are both getting what we want. After all I get my pleasure from sending him to subspace, if I could do it a better way I want to know.



Yes, submission but not so easily and readily given. I'm not sure I understand it myself. I guess too much submission seems a weakness and that isnt what I want. Not that I want someone who will fight me all the way. I guess I want someone with a little spirit, someone who will challenge me instead of worshipping me. Does that make any sense? LOL


Mentor,


I was pleased to read your thoughts. I also have my inner questions about what I am doing. I grew up as a very typical nice girl. We lived in the suburbs in a very middle class traditional white area. I can remember the full body flush I got the first time I dared to peek at a naked man in a magazine from the store rack. My first orgasm was a total mystery to me and I was very afraid of whatever it was. It took me a long time before I allowed myself to see it through and find out what mysterious thing this was my body wanted to do. I dont know if men go through anything similar with their first orgasm. 


You may wonder why I am writing this to someone I know casually. I find I am very open to discuss sexual things (most at least). But as you say, in person face to face and skin to skin is a lot different than an email letter or an IRC chat. 


Anyway, I have wandered off from my original point. I grew up the model of the nice girl, no drugs (ever) I tried smoking but didnt find it interesting enough to bother with, and I never went through a boy crazy period. But I did like to read about women being captured and taken away for a long and lusty seduction. I read a lot of historical romances. The woman I was becoming thought the age of 30 was old but the girl who read the romances thought 30 was a man who knew a woman inside and out and could give her everything she desired. Of course, the girl was reading too many romances. Luckily I had the emerging woman to keep my head on straight. 


Buth the biggest question I am left with now as I explore D/s and all that goes along with it is: Am I losing the nice girl I am and respect in myself? Sure part of it is that I dont want others like family and people I meet to think Im not a nice girl. But my inner self is changing. I am not the naive young woman I started out as a year ago when I was new to the Net. I worry that I am going to far and I will find myself changed more than I want to be. I wonder if I will be able to like myself. For awhile I thought I had answered this question to myself. I realized that I am still the same nice girl inside. I thought I would know when and where to stop myself, to set my limits as you would say in bdsm lingo. But now I am wondering again. 


Just this week I met another man on line who very much interests me. I had to just last night admit/ tell him that I am into bondage, at least the idea as I have no real experience yet. Doing this made me feel vulnerable to the acceptance of others again. It brought back all the questions. Am I still a nice girl if I like to be tied up or tie up a man and make him beg for sexual release for no reason other than it turns me on? I dont know the answer to my question. It may never be answered for sure and for ever. 


I identified with some of what you wrote about the fem subs you have encountered. That again brings up all my questions about whether I am a submissive too scared of her feelings to allow myself to submit. Or am I really a Domme who is not bold enough to go all the way and so falls back on the excuse of being a switch. Those are questions that I am working on answering. Just like yourself, I am the only one who can give myself answers to those questions.  I wish you good luck in finding your own answers. When your Ironwill site is back up I hope you will send me the URL. I would like to see it.